Aug 23 The start Because of the large number of less informed people confusing Keenspace with Keenspot, and also because of widely speeded reputation of Keenspace as a recruiting zone for Keenspot (a reputation that Keenspot Entertainment owners wanted to avoid), the idea of name change for Keenspace appears. Contrary to popular belief, the idea was actually initiated by some Keenspace members, but instantly accepted on Keenspot with a large debate about whether Keenspace members should have a word in the final decision:

Daren "Gav" Bleuel, one of Keenspot's executives, says: "The difference, of course, is that Keenspacers are customers and Keenspotters are employees.

While no business needs consult either side on a name change, it may still be the perogative of some companies to consider employee input; but if such a decision is made, one can not expect customers to be up in arms that they were not similarly consulted.”

Also, the idea of the Keenspot name change as the more convenient option popped out, but had only a short breath of life. Steve Troop (on KeenSpot until recently) said: “Likewise, I couldn't care less if Keenspot changed its name. In fact, I encourage them to do so whenever this comes up. They seem to have some misguided notions that "Keen" has some brand recognition -- which it may -- but it's been my experience that when people say "Keen" most people think "free hosting."

There has to be a name change on one side or another. And, in reality, no one should have any reason to gripe about this. I never have understood why a lot of you promote yourselves as "keenspacers." I have always tried to market myself as my own property. For the first three years of "Melonpool," it would have been stupid for me to promote myself as the CTS comic Melonpool (CTS was the outfit that hosted me), so why do some of you?

You all obviously do your own things and if you last more than six months at it, you're obviously dedicated to it. So why are you promoting it under the umbrella of a free hosting service? Wouldn't it make more sense for you to promote yourself?”

26 Aug 2004 At the same time, People on Keenspace forum are trying to assemble their first webcomic sampler - a book following the form of an earlier Free Comic Book Day sampler (traditionally issued by Keenspot Entertainment every year) is created in the same form of comic samples, but printed and distributed by webcomic artists themselves – as an effort to promote themselves independently from Keenspot Entertainment.Asking Chris Crosby, another Keenspot executive, about the possible use of the name “Keenspace” brought unexpected results. Crosby replied: “Due to the high amount of brand confusion between the names Keenspace and Keenspot, we chose to title the Free Comic Book Day 2004 sampler FROM PIXELS TO PAPER. For the same reason, I'm afraid we cannot grant permission to use the Keenspace name or logo in the title of your print samplers.

You DO have permission to use the FROM PIXELS TO PAPER title and logo, or you could come up with a similar title. And of course you can point readers to keenspace.com within the samplers.

Thanks, good luck with this.”

07 Sep 2004 A thread on Keenspace forum is started with intention to assemble a list of names proposed by Keenspacers: Ping Teo (Phalanx), who started this thread, said:

”At the present, Gav's given me a week to collect a list of names we'd prefer to be called by to be submitted for suggestion. When the final decision is made whether they actually will rename Keenspace or not, and if they decide that the answer is yes, they'll almost probably certainly pick the name there and then as well.

I don't know about you, but I think I want them to have a nice list of names to pick from by then so we don't end up being called something silly.“

This thread bursts into an energic discussion as well. Some Keenspacers are claiming that the name change is just a way of alienating Keenspace from Keenspot. One of the more vocal is Ghastly: “Basically the real reason is to try to disassociate themselves from the stench of Keenspace. It's just another way to further ghettoize the Spacers.

Since there are more Keenspacers than Keenspotters and more Keenspacers rely upon the ****.keenspace.com URL than Spotters rely upon the ****.keenspot.com URL it would make more sense if Spotters really want to not be confused with Spacers if they just changed the name of Keenspot.

As for why readers confuse Keenspace with Keenspot it's simple. There's no difference between the two from the point of view of the reader. Take the top 50 comics on Keenspace and compair them to the top 50 comics on Keenspot and there's very little discrepancy in terms of quality.” (read more is an interview in this issue of “Keenspace Monthly”) add a link to interview here

Others however, greet the change, hoping that it would bring more promotional freedom. John Forthman, initiator of the sampler book, says: ” Point well taken. However, "Keenspace" will always be a shadow of "Keenspot." Chris Crosby will not allow "Keenspace" to be used because of brand confusion, even if no one on Keenspot is being affected by that usage or needs to do any work on the matter.”

Kisai, keenspace admin, sheds some light on the technical side of the problem (11 Sep 2004): “Neither Gav or Nate did any programming on the DB backend. Though it's simple enough. UPDATE keen_comics set comic_domain='-newdomain- where comic_domain='keenspace.com' and then do the same for the domain table, however to prevent breaking people going to keenspace.com from getting hostname not found errors it would actually be this easy: INSERT INTO keen_domains set domain_zone='-newdomain-',comic_id='$comic_id';

Something a little more elaborate as there are a few more columns in that table, it would have to be a script that does the second stage.

Then the appropriate changes to the apache configuration, simply changing the keenspace.com to -newdomain- and then adding ServerAlias keenspace.com would solve that.

Not hard at all. Then run an autokeen full rebuiild of everyones site, and then all the links would change. This is WHY you should not hardlink your domain in your links. (flying in face of the suggestion posted on the help forums that putting the full domain is the best way, it isn't. /images/image.jpg is the correct way)

Anyways. While I'm not opposed to changing the name, I'm not seeing a reason to change it.”

Paralelly, new names are discussed. The most promising new names, Inkspace and Openspace, are rejected because their .com domains are already taken. Another popular name that pops out is “Doombees”, based on a popular Keenspacer’s inside joke.

Mon Sep 13, 2004 The full list of names that Phalanx submitted to Chris and Gav for consideration is:

NewFront Comics, Inkspace, DoomBees, Bring It On! Comics, VileTerror, Openspace, SpotFree, Myriad Comics, StudioSpace, Collectivesass.com, Collectiveass.com, goshnifty.com, DNR Comics (DNR = Do Not Reply), InkBlot, BAMFcomics, Comic Cosmos, Komicry, Idola, Eidola, Asylum, NotSpace, Inksots, Comic Blitz, Bedlam (because if you get involved in the forums, it is), The Webcomic Melting Pot, SpleenCase, KMallet, Comic Drop, CosmicCarnival, InkAsylum, Comic Commons, PixelComics, Dependent Comics (for short Dy comics), Inkarama, comicsgalore, webcomicsvillage, comicsvillage, Brain dump, Ten Thousand Voices, Aces and Kings, Framed Images, 4WX (4th Wall Broken), Amateur Hour, Comic Life, Against the Grain, MentalProbe, DollarFiftyComics, Voxels, The International Online Comic Arts Society (IOCAS), FribbleFrabble, killercomics.com, supermister.com, gollygosh.com, Comic Kiwil, InkBolt, ComicMedian.com, /cybersquats, Comiquest.com, Comiquarium.com, Comixnmatch.com, Comicopia.org (.Com and .Net are taken), Panelpushers.com, Sceneplace.com (rhymes!), Sceneplot.com (rhymes with Keenspot), Comicease.com, Multicomics.com, You Customer! Comics, ComicSpace, GhastlySpace, Komixspace, Kwikispace, Studiospace, Panelplace, Creationspace, Doublespace, Officespace, Kinkspace, Keepspace, Kilnspace, Coinspace, FreeSpace, Graphics Space, Slip Space, Drunk Space, PupkinSpace, Artspace, Storyspace, Web Space, Blingspace, allthatspace, allofspace.com, nomorespace.net, doodlespace.com, AuspiciouSpace or AuspiciousSpace, PropitiouSpace or PropitiousSpace, NeotericSpace, NeroticSpace, PertSpace, InventiveSpace, TheWorkSpace, DepictionSpace, StoryboardSpace, BigSpace, YourSpace, Kspace, assspace, Terror Space, Vile Space, Keenspork, Keenspank, Keenspiffy, Keenspunky, Brewster Keenspoof, Keensparf, Keensparta, Keensplink, Keenspoon, Keenspill, Keensport, Keenhouse, Keencomics, Keensplinter-in-the-side, KeenUniverse, KeenSuckFpot, KeenWorks, KeenTemps, KeenEdge, KeenFree, KeenLagoon, KeenStage, SpotLess, BlackSpot, Noodle-something, Wild American Nuns Gyrating (WANG), Pickle-something or something-pickle, There'sAComicInMySpace, There'sASpaceInMyLizard, There'sASpaceInMyBathroom, There'sABathroomInMyComic, There'sALizardInMyGraphicNovel, Steve, AreYouReallySure, ImboredLetsStartAWebcomic, readmycomic, BoopBiddilyOpBiddilyOpBopBopBopBop.com, OhMyGodMyEyesAreBleeding.com

Then the story of the name change gets forgotten for several months.

01 Apr 2005 In the moment when everybody thought the name change idea was forgotten, Daren Bluel, in an interview for Keenspace Monthly, says: "If we choose to discuss the issue again soon, then I would say there's a good chance that we at least start the ball rolling before the next Comic Con this July. If we put off the issue for longer, then I'm just not sure when we'll bring it back up. I think, however, it's been a good idea to introduce the idea early and let everyone get used to the concept before any actual changes take place. People are always irritated by instant change, but the more time everyone has had to mull it over, I've noticed, the more everyone is approving of the idea."

May 17, 2005 08:07 PM Unexpectedly, information about the name change leaks through one of the comments on Websnark blog: “Good news on that front... on Monday, the Keen Four voted unanimously on what to change the name to. There should be a public announcement of the name later this week. By the 5th anniversary of KeenSPACE (June 2005), every site should begin switching over to the new name and URL“ On Keenspace forum, Chris Crosby assures us: “The old URLs will continue to work for a long time, don't worry.” And also: “"Space" is part of the new name.

The new name, which solves a simple brand confusion problem, will allow this service to have a larger prominence and more promotion through KeenSPOT than ever before.”

23 May 2005 A certain Mr.Bob claims that he knows the new name of Keenspace but he won’t tell untill you pay to him. However, nobody believes him much.

23 May 2005, later New name for Keenspace is Toonspace. Chris Crosby announces: “To hopefully make up for that "announcing the announcement in a Websnark comment" idiocy earlier, I'll announce the name publicly first here right on 'Space Forums.

It's Toonspace.

After reading just about every suggestion posted here and everywhere else and taking all into consideration, that's the one that we decided on. What was our reasoning for choosing that name, you ask?

* "Toon" is four letters, just like "Keen." Every domain name will remain the same exact length.

* The "Space" part is retained. You kind folks, if you like, can continue to call yourselves 'Spacers. The SpaceWranglers can continue to call themselves that. And it all sounds nothing like "Keen" or "Spot", which means even the dumbest person will not be confused into thinking one is the other.

* "Toon" is fairly generic, but not so much that it hurts (in our humble opinion, at least). Comic strips and one-panel cartoons are both referred to as "cartoons," or "toons" for short. You could tell someone to "read some of my toons" and it wouldn't sound weird.

* "Toon" doesn't limit the service to just comics or strips. If we ever get into hosting free-for-all Flash animation alongside standard webcomics, that will not make necessary ANOTHER name change.

It's probably not the perfect choice, but we at Keenspot never claimed perfection. That said, I believe it will serve us all well.

The name change will result in the ability to promote yourselves everywhere using the Toonspace name. Expect to see a Toonspace sampler book published and distributed on the next Free Comic Book Day.

We hope to retain a logo as close to the current version as possible, which of course looks awesome.

yourcomicname.keenspace.com URLs will continue to function for a long period of time, at least until 2006. We expect to begin activating the new *.toonspace.com URLs sometime in June.

Any further questions can be brought up here.

Thanks for your patience. Here's to a new era of 'space!”

Many Keenspacers are dissapointed by the bland choice of the name or by unwanted associations that “toons” can bring. “...toon suggests cartoons, moving pictures. I'm kind of disapointed. I kinda hoped for more relevence to comics... some respect. I don't want to get blasted for saying this... I really don't... but... I'm not a toon.” However, as usual, a lot of Keenspacers are pleased with the name – that, or uninterested.

24 May 2005 Chris Crosby reconsiders the name: “We may have made a decision on the name change, but it ain't over until the domains start changing. To help us make further decisions, please choose your favorite new name for Keenspace from the choices below.” He offers WebcomicSpace as the alternative, but this name isn’t well received by Keenspacers either. Listing of the names starts again, this time with the goal to make a short list of the most desired names. During the uncertanity about new URL’s, a lot of Keenspacers consider getting their own domains: “Since the Toonspace train has officially pulled into the station, I'm probably going to break down and register a internet domain-name forwarding service for my comic. (I may not be using the proper terminology here. I mean having a surfer's request for "mansionofe.com" automagically transfer to "mansionofe.toonspace.com", or whatever address I choose.) So, for me and any other clueless newbies out there...”

26 May 2005 Officially, ComicGenesis (ComicGen) is the name mostly prefered by Keenspacers. However, it is not an official name. Reaction of Keenspot Entertainment executives is still awaited.

Note: Do not post in linked threads. They are very old and innactive threads and if you ressurect them, many people will be mad.

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